Hmmm... Marc, don't you think your findings (the need to set the XSizeHints) is also what windows using "-setgrid true" may need (I mean, not specifically the systray icon). Which could mean we perhaps can't blindly remove the -setgrid option from text/listbox and remove [wm grid] because this would remove the size hints given to the window manager, on which code using these "-setgrid on" / [wm grid] might rely?